Whilst I was in Chanthaburi at the durian festival in Thailand in May last year, I had a quarter of a rear lower molar crumble away. At the time I passed it off as past lifestyle bad habits catching up with me and continued on. Over the last few months my teeth became sensitive and I developed a dull ache in the left side of my jaw. I ignored it for a couple of months until I saw a post on facebook of another 811er having teeth issues. So I went to the dentist - an expensive holistic one in the heart of Melbourne. I had to have an x-ray before seeing him which he viewed before I was called in. He said my teeth overall are severely decayed and in the top 1% of cases in Australia. He said he personally has never seen a patient with such bad decay. This was before he even looked in my mouth. The x-ray showed that most of my rear molars are hollow and on the verge of crumbling. He then proved it to me by gently probing areas of decay which made me cry out in pain. He told me I have to quit the soft drinks, lollies, chocolates, and highly processed sugary foods immediately if I have any chance of saving my teeth. He gave me an estimate of $20,000 to repair the damage done which included a minimum of 3 root canals and 16 large fillings. I left his office in shock.
So I started researching and came to what I consider a solution which is not 100% vegan. In the last 2 and a half weeks I have added a small amount of non-vegan foods to my diet. I won’t discuss that any further here as I respect that this is a vegan forum. I’ve decided to post this here in the hope that a discussion can be initiated.
So what I’d like to ask this community is what have I done wrong and is there a vegan way to correct it? I would like to be 100% vegan but I currently believe that 99% is the way to go. I’m desperate for a solution which has led me down the 1% non-vegan foods path. It was not a decision I made lightly.
Before we start this I’ll tell you a bit about what I have been doing as a raw vegan;
That’s all I can think of at the moment. Ask for anything I may have missed.
I request that only people who have been on this diet for a minimum of 3 years or have a nutritional background reply. The reason being is that at 2 and a half years on 811 I thought my teeth were the best they had ever been and in general I felt amazing. Things only started going downhill a couple of months after that with the crumbling of my first tooth.
Thanks for all the replies and sorry it's taken me awhile to answer questions, I've been entertaining a friend from interstate (also 811 with teeth issues who lives with another 811 with teeth issues) so haven't had much time on the computer in the last few days.
There's been some interesting suggestions especially getting a bone scan and possible liver issues. I'm getting a bone scan on the 4th of July so will let you all know the results of that and will look further into possible liver issues although my liver function tests are fine.
Dental hygiene is a hard one as I have an ex girlfriend friend and have heard before that too much brushing/flossing can lead to receding gums. I currently rinse and brush after every meal but will look into some of the less invasive flosses.
As for my non-vegan consumption, it's limited to invertebrates and some eggs and makes up about 1% of my diet. As far as I can see this is the example nature gives us via our cousin primates and that is where I currently choose to put my faith. Not really interested in debating this.
I agree that fasting could have been the cause of this but I also think that after a year and a half if this diet is the healthiest my body should have been replenishing anything that was depleted. Judging by how I've been feeling I've obviously been lacking something. Since the additions to my diet I've been feeling incredible! Things improved with the B12 shots but still felt pretty average. Feel like I'm thriving for the first time in my life!
So I'm still 99% 811 raw vegan so I hope people can still accept me here. I've been doing this for 3 weeks and will be getting another blood test at the 3 month mark and then another blood test, dental x-ray, and bone density scan at 6 months. So consider this an experiment and hey if it doesn't work I can be the poster boy for what not to do! I can't afford any dental work anyway.
p.s In regards to my weight, I've been around 56kgs for my whole adult life. Within the first few months of 811 I lost 8 kgs and have only put it back on since fasting. So if I was anorexic and fasting is bad then I'm very confused.
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500g durian is already to much, and 500g is not a big meal with his 735kcal...
Sorry Stephen you are having teeth issues. I have been lfrv for 11 years. I had lots of cavities as a child so I had 2 teeth fall apart( old fillings in my molar) but that was before lfrv. Flossing is so important you can get away with not flossing when you are younger but it catches up to you when you are older. If you have ever been on anti -depressents they dry out the mouth. past lifestyle choices do take awhile to affect the teeth. Teeth can seem fine but people need x-rays to make sure. I am always surprise when people had eating disorders and then are shocked when their teeth start causes them problems years later.
I have always used flouride toothpaste and flossed and went to the dentist for cleanings. I have no new problems with my teeth for the last 11 years. I know eventually I will have to get old fillings replaced because the only last for so long.
i would get a second opinion on your teeth. How long were you low on b-12?
My teeth are really close together too, but you must start flossing now that you are older the body is less forgiving then when you were in your 20s and younger. also I do swish with salt water once in awhile.
As for vitamin K2 its all about eating enough plants then fermentation from gut bacterial. Both are dependant on a healthy gut.
Interesting to note there is not a K2 blood test out yet AND natto is the most easy available source of K2. Its like Japanese vegemite lol!
how important is it to limit the time fruit sugar is on your teeth? should we be limiting meal times to like 20 minutes?
im really interested in this calcium/phosphorus ratio too.. i looked on cronometer and 10 oranges have 600mg of calcium.. gotta eat them not juice though to get the calcium. and make sure only eat them ripe and sweet
I too noticed the difference between the calcium of freshly squeezed o/j and oranges
interestingly on cronometer orange peel has 97cal/100g and 161mg of calcium, oranges have 47cal/100g and 40mg of calcium and orange juice has 45 cal/100g and only 11mg of calcium.
i used to eat orange peel as a kid but haven't done so as an adult but it contains twice the calorific value of its inners and 4 times the calcium and nearly 15 times the calcium of orange juice.
Yes, exactly, and peel of a fruit usually contain indigestible fiber, anti-nutrients and toxins, - a function of protection against parasites.
Also I wonder if cronometer counts in the "nutritional value" of seeds...:)
Look further at LIME "whole" versus "juiced"..., with the double amount of calcium in the whole fruit package = peel+indigestible fiber+seeds...
The 'oranges' nutritional values on cronometer don't include peel (and obviously pips) as there is an option of 'oranges (with peel)' that gives 63 cal/100g and 70mg of calcium. Therefore the discrepancy between oj and oranges in calcium must come from the segment walls and/ or maybe the pith. I would say that the values with limes on cronometer also don't include peel or seeds.
It must be that the cronometer "raw juice" standard is highly over filtrated or something...
Because after my squeezing of citrus fruits there is ONLY peel and seeds left over, which I never consume or spit out anyway when chewing these fruits as "whole"...
And I have the same problem with this as I do with the high fat content of raspberries and blackberries... I don't think we're digesting this stuff.
Sure, when you ash it in the lab, there's a higher calcium content, but if the segment walls are passing undigested through my intestines, I'm not getting that calcium.
Amy, no need to be scared of ripe fruit sugar or limit exposure to it, ripe fruit is not the cause of tooth decay. We don't subscribe or promote that theory here. Been over it in the past totally flies in the face of natures design. Limit your fruit meal to 20mins and leave yourself open to undereating.
get enough calories from ripe fruit
proper dental hygiene
stay consistently hydrated *big one.
get enough sunshine
remember your past prior to 811 may catch up with you but it's not the fruits fault!
You can also gently blend oranges for a few seconds on low speed in the vitamix. You are still getting all the fiber and pith and still have to spit out the seeds, so you are still getting all the calcium.
Amy, aren't you living in a cold climate? Your biggest concern should probably be finding a way to avoid that in the future, and perhaps eating (or juicing if you have to) more greens.
Not sure if it would help much or not, but you could always juice the oranges and then add some of the pulp back. (I always like it more than way anyways ;)