Whilst I was in Chanthaburi at the durian festival in Thailand in May last year, I had a quarter of a rear lower molar crumble away. At the time I passed it off as past lifestyle bad habits catching up with me and continued on. Over the last few months my teeth became sensitive and I developed a dull ache in the left side of my jaw. I ignored it for a couple of months until I saw a post on facebook of another 811er having teeth issues. So I went to the dentist - an expensive holistic one in the heart of Melbourne. I had to have an x-ray before seeing him which he viewed before I was called in. He said my teeth overall are severely decayed and in the top 1% of cases in Australia. He said he personally has never seen a patient with such bad decay. This was before he even looked in my mouth. The x-ray showed that most of my rear molars are hollow and on the verge of crumbling. He then proved it to me by gently probing areas of decay which made me cry out in pain. He told me I have to quit the soft drinks, lollies, chocolates, and highly processed sugary foods immediately if I have any chance of saving my teeth. He gave me an estimate of $20,000 to repair the damage done which included a minimum of 3 root canals and 16 large fillings. I left his office in shock.
So I started researching and came to what I consider a solution which is not 100% vegan. In the last 2 and a half weeks I have added a small amount of non-vegan foods to my diet. I won’t discuss that any further here as I respect that this is a vegan forum. I’ve decided to post this here in the hope that a discussion can be initiated.
So what I’d like to ask this community is what have I done wrong and is there a vegan way to correct it? I would like to be 100% vegan but I currently believe that 99% is the way to go. I’m desperate for a solution which has led me down the 1% non-vegan foods path. It was not a decision I made lightly.
Before we start this I’ll tell you a bit about what I have been doing as a raw vegan;
That’s all I can think of at the moment. Ask for anything I may have missed.
I request that only people who have been on this diet for a minimum of 3 years or have a nutritional background reply. The reason being is that at 2 and a half years on 811 I thought my teeth were the best they had ever been and in general I felt amazing. Things only started going downhill a couple of months after that with the crumbling of my first tooth.
Thanks for all the replies and sorry it's taken me awhile to answer questions, I've been entertaining a friend from interstate (also 811 with teeth issues who lives with another 811 with teeth issues) so haven't had much time on the computer in the last few days.
There's been some interesting suggestions especially getting a bone scan and possible liver issues. I'm getting a bone scan on the 4th of July so will let you all know the results of that and will look further into possible liver issues although my liver function tests are fine.
Dental hygiene is a hard one as I have an ex girlfriend friend and have heard before that too much brushing/flossing can lead to receding gums. I currently rinse and brush after every meal but will look into some of the less invasive flosses.
As for my non-vegan consumption, it's limited to invertebrates and some eggs and makes up about 1% of my diet. As far as I can see this is the example nature gives us via our cousin primates and that is where I currently choose to put my faith. Not really interested in debating this.
I agree that fasting could have been the cause of this but I also think that after a year and a half if this diet is the healthiest my body should have been replenishing anything that was depleted. Judging by how I've been feeling I've obviously been lacking something. Since the additions to my diet I've been feeling incredible! Things improved with the B12 shots but still felt pretty average. Feel like I'm thriving for the first time in my life!
So I'm still 99% 811 raw vegan so I hope people can still accept me here. I've been doing this for 3 weeks and will be getting another blood test at the 3 month mark and then another blood test, dental x-ray, and bone density scan at 6 months. So consider this an experiment and hey if it doesn't work I can be the poster boy for what not to do! I can't afford any dental work anyway.
p.s In regards to my weight, I've been around 56kgs for my whole adult life. Within the first few months of 811 I lost 8 kgs and have only put it back on since fasting. So if I was anorexic and fasting is bad then I'm very confused.
Replies are closed for this discussion.
K2 is very tricky to absorb on a vegan diet -- it can exist in a healthy gut i presume, which not many people have these days. It is mainly found in animal products and the only vegan source that i know of is natto, which they used in the vegan supplement version of it.
It is true that you can get vitamin D3 from the sun, but in times of emergency like this it is probably important to also supplement in some way. It's also important to note that if you want to absorb the vit. d from the sun, you have to make sure you dont wash with soap on the exposed skin areas. I do get sun, but not nearly enough... always working in the studio. I'm definitely getting more sun now but also taking a vegan d3 supplement, available online.
I forgot to say that I lived at 43 paralel in a cloudy place :S. I will be very interested on your experiences with k2 (mk4, mk7, both), please post them.
Now now, vegan witch, if you're going to insult Americans, at least try to spell it correctly!
In any case, no need to be so rude/name calling (ie:"idiot"). People might think you were raised by dingos :)
Here is your idiot reference in response to a comment by greenmama:
"what a load of BS - and i mean TOTAL BS - stop being a pawn to the medical industry - the man is an idiot and so are you if you believe it."
I agree with a lot of your sentiments re: big pharma, etc., but this is a case of it's not what you say but how you say it.
Please refrain from calling other members idiots either directly or indirectly.
I agree Sultana.
Hey Vegan Witch I know you are passionate (me too) and appreciate a lot of your contribution but insulting the whole of America is really fruitless... you do realise Australia is just a mini-America right? I think we are actually fatter than America as a whole and just as sick. Most of the forum is from America too! Lets not insult our American brothers and sisters.! :)
Dear vegan witch: In fact i truly hate pills. I much prefer whole foods. I havent taken pills in 4 years. However, when dental crisis hits (my tooth f-ing crumbled) i think there's feasible reason to TEMPORARILY supplement. Even so, i am slacking on it because i can barely swallow the pills. I am with you. We ARE designed to eat food. But we are also NOT designed to form severe tooth decay (crumbling teeth) or derfinciecies. I believe in whole foods. But its an emergency. I would have said the same thing 4 years ago, but sometimes extreme cases require some unnatural supplementation, at least temporarily.
Thanks for your input Ashley, sorry to hear your ordeal.
I agree that we need to tell people not to go to drastic in changing their dental hygiene practices (possibly just using better products). Then we would really see if the diet needs to be tweaked in some way (like eating more greens to assure teeth strength). Right now to many people hear of 811 and either stop hygiene practice all together, or stop flossing, or brushing with toothpaste or using mouth wash. Just one detail over time can have devastating affects on teeth. As Doug and Don mentioned some might be able to get away with just using water but I have a suspicion quite a few don't, so it would be better to preach conservatively to people especially with outcomes some people are having is maddening.
You mentioned that you were lax about your previous hygiene but were you using toothpaste before? just that detail could be the difference. brushing with water does not do much to the excess bacteria that some people might produce more then others.
Best of luck
Hey ash why not use a Fluoride free toothpaste? or dr Bronners soap kills bacteria and contains no glycerin (peppermint actually tastes good). Did the dentist make an argument for its use? in the short term don't compromise go with what is most likely to work.
Ashley this is awesome info about dental hygiene recommended by another 811 who had some issues. Take a look at even talks about a product that helps remineralization
The interview can be found here: http://mizar5.com/NaraOneRadio.html
Currently I have another thread trying to bolster are recommendations for teeth. Water just does not cut it for most hopefully we will be spreading good info on teeth as much as we say eat enough calories
Thanks, Mikey, great stuff!
Listen to his podcast good stuff.
simple but effective so far, I was close to being the next one posting so far after following just a week and half seeing results. Like pinker gums less yellow on the teeth around the gumline, my teeth feel stronger set in the gums. There is a lot of products on the oramedia website some pastes to help rebuild the enamel might get some if I do not see a change in some of the little cracks I have. Brushing with water may be fine for some but not all especially not people who have gum issues coming into the diet like me
Eating mainly fruit and its potential/actual dangers if eaten exclusively..........
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