Whilst I was in Chanthaburi at the durian festival in Thailand in May last year, I had a quarter of a rear lower molar crumble away. At the time I passed it off as past lifestyle bad habits catching up with me and continued on. Over the last few months my teeth became sensitive and I developed a dull ache in the left side of my jaw. I ignored it for a couple of months until I saw a post on facebook of another 811er having teeth issues. So I went to the dentist - an expensive holistic one in the heart of Melbourne. I had to have an x-ray before seeing him which he viewed before I was called in. He said my teeth overall are severely decayed and in the top 1% of cases in Australia. He said he personally has never seen a patient with such bad decay. This was before he even looked in my mouth. The x-ray showed that most of my rear molars are hollow and on the verge of crumbling. He then proved it to me by gently probing areas of decay which made me cry out in pain. He told me I have to quit the soft drinks, lollies, chocolates, and highly processed sugary foods immediately if I have any chance of saving my teeth. He gave me an estimate of $20,000 to repair the damage done which included a minimum of 3 root canals and 16 large fillings. I left his office in shock.
So I started researching and came to what I consider a solution which is not 100% vegan. In the last 2 and a half weeks I have added a small amount of non-vegan foods to my diet. I won’t discuss that any further here as I respect that this is a vegan forum. I’ve decided to post this here in the hope that a discussion can be initiated.
So what I’d like to ask this community is what have I done wrong and is there a vegan way to correct it? I would like to be 100% vegan but I currently believe that 99% is the way to go. I’m desperate for a solution which has led me down the 1% non-vegan foods path. It was not a decision I made lightly.
Before we start this I’ll tell you a bit about what I have been doing as a raw vegan;
That’s all I can think of at the moment. Ask for anything I may have missed.
I request that only people who have been on this diet for a minimum of 3 years or have a nutritional background reply. The reason being is that at 2 and a half years on 811 I thought my teeth were the best they had ever been and in general I felt amazing. Things only started going downhill a couple of months after that with the crumbling of my first tooth.
Thanks for all the replies and sorry it's taken me awhile to answer questions, I've been entertaining a friend from interstate (also 811 with teeth issues who lives with another 811 with teeth issues) so haven't had much time on the computer in the last few days.
There's been some interesting suggestions especially getting a bone scan and possible liver issues. I'm getting a bone scan on the 4th of July so will let you all know the results of that and will look further into possible liver issues although my liver function tests are fine.
Dental hygiene is a hard one as I have an ex girlfriend friend and have heard before that too much brushing/flossing can lead to receding gums. I currently rinse and brush after every meal but will look into some of the less invasive flosses.
As for my non-vegan consumption, it's limited to invertebrates and some eggs and makes up about 1% of my diet. As far as I can see this is the example nature gives us via our cousin primates and that is where I currently choose to put my faith. Not really interested in debating this.
I agree that fasting could have been the cause of this but I also think that after a year and a half if this diet is the healthiest my body should have been replenishing anything that was depleted. Judging by how I've been feeling I've obviously been lacking something. Since the additions to my diet I've been feeling incredible! Things improved with the B12 shots but still felt pretty average. Feel like I'm thriving for the first time in my life!
So I'm still 99% 811 raw vegan so I hope people can still accept me here. I've been doing this for 3 weeks and will be getting another blood test at the 3 month mark and then another blood test, dental x-ray, and bone density scan at 6 months. So consider this an experiment and hey if it doesn't work I can be the poster boy for what not to do! I can't afford any dental work anyway.
p.s In regards to my weight, I've been around 56kgs for my whole adult life. Within the first few months of 811 I lost 8 kgs and have only put it back on since fasting. So if I was anorexic and fasting is bad then I'm very confused.
Replies are closed for this discussion.
Just to correct you Rhonda on your comment: "Autolysis is the breaking down of fat stores in the body in order to produce energy"........is actually the term used for ketosis. Autolysis is the physiological process that selectively uses the least needed substances/tissues within the body as fuel first and foremost, whilst simultaneously preserving the most essential tissues during a fast. If this wasn't the case then the body would feed haphazardly and indiscriminately and feed on our essential tissues resulting in starvation and death within days of the commencement of a fast.
Got my bone density scan done the other day. My T-Score is -1.5 and my Z-Score is -1.4 with my bone density being 77% of what it should be for a 38 year old. Basically I have the bone density of an average 60 year old. :(
Well according to the bone density Australia people I haven't been having enough calcium in my diet. I averaged around 3500 calories and had 2 heads of lettuce a day at the most which doesn't make the minimum 1000mg of calcium they recommend. I struggled with greens so 2 heads was on a good day.
i guess i average more greens than that... for roughly the same amount of calories... I must say that I use dressings which are not 811 compliant (salt for example) to make them tasty...small compromise...
I also eat peas and peanuts in addition to the greens, but not entirely sure how that will affect calcium.
But I thought you said that you felt improvement after adding eggs? it then sounds less of a lack of calcium, but more of an utilization issue.
anyway, all the best with your healing...
I think I've been lacking in general in the mineral and fat-soluble vitamins area. Eggs were a late addition just before I started this post so I was already feeling better before their addition. Since the 25th of June I've been tracking my calcium intake and making sure it's above 1000mg a day. I've been doing this with a combo of more greens and the new additions to my diet.
I think fat soluble vitamins could be an issue for some people, but I don't see how eggs are the answer. I'm not saying you said that, but it almost sounds like it. Neither am I saying people need more than 10% fat necessarily, but that people should perhaps be not so afraid to eat overt fats every now and then.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you've been listening to Victor. If people want to experiment and say they feel better doing certain things that's totally fine, but I feel Victor offers a lot of false information. He says he takes eggs for vitamin k, when eggs are a terrible source of vitamin k. According to USDA listings, you have to eat about 5 large eggs just to get 1% of your requirements. I've checked other sources too.
I haven't read the entire thread, but I didn't see you mention anything about bleeding more easily, bleeding gums, bleeding nose etc, which is a common symptom of vitamin k deficiency.
He also says phytate is the only form phosphorus in plant foods. I don't think this is true. Mineral deficiencies such as calcium, iron and zinc would be very common in vegans if this were true.
I know this isn't much help, or any help. I just wanted to put the record straight on a few things. Best of luck.
Yes I've heard this and agree. My fat intake is higher now due to the non-vegan foods so maybe that will make a difference.
I am dentist and i think there are a couple of things you shoul know:
First, you must floss! Your teeth crumble because they have cavities in the contact points with other teeth; that are isn't cleaned whem yo brush, and the tongue, cheeks movement and saliva have a poor action in those areas - so you must floss! Once a day, minimum!
Because cavities are formed due to acidic production from bacteria in the mouth - these bacteria run on carbs! So you must get carbs out of your teeth!
Secondly a raw vegan diet produces more acid - people in these diet have more dental erosion! And that is ok! that can be avoided also! The number one care is to avoide brushing your teeth imediately after eating your delicious fruit (especially the acidic) - wait five minutes and you are ready to go! Anything else or anything that isn't clear, please don't hesitate to ask!
Hope you feel better soon!
Hey ines I will paste your reply in
Hi Ines couple of questions
-what about rinsing with water (water +baking soda) to help neutralize the acids and removing some of the extra food sugar and particles.
-5 minutes you think it is enough time for the enamel not to be damaged after an acid meal?
-Have you heard of Dr.Naras work?