Whilst I was in Chanthaburi at the durian festival in Thailand in May last year, I had a quarter of a rear lower molar crumble away. At the time I passed it off as past lifestyle bad habits catching up with me and continued on. Over the last few months my teeth became sensitive and I developed a dull ache in the left side of my jaw. I ignored it for a couple of months until I saw a post on facebook of another 811er having teeth issues. So I went to the dentist - an expensive holistic one in the heart of Melbourne. I had to have an x-ray before seeing him which he viewed before I was called in. He said my teeth overall are severely decayed and in the top 1% of cases in Australia. He said he personally has never seen a patient with such bad decay. This was before he even looked in my mouth. The x-ray showed that most of my rear molars are hollow and on the verge of crumbling. He then proved it to me by gently probing areas of decay which made me cry out in pain. He told me I have to quit the soft drinks, lollies, chocolates, and highly processed sugary foods immediately if I have any chance of saving my teeth. He gave me an estimate of $20,000 to repair the damage done which included a minimum of 3 root canals and 16 large fillings. I left his office in shock.
So I started researching and came to what I consider a solution which is not 100% vegan. In the last 2 and a half weeks I have added a small amount of non-vegan foods to my diet. I won’t discuss that any further here as I respect that this is a vegan forum. I’ve decided to post this here in the hope that a discussion can be initiated.
So what I’d like to ask this community is what have I done wrong and is there a vegan way to correct it? I would like to be 100% vegan but I currently believe that 99% is the way to go. I’m desperate for a solution which has led me down the 1% non-vegan foods path. It was not a decision I made lightly.
Before we start this I’ll tell you a bit about what I have been doing as a raw vegan;
That’s all I can think of at the moment. Ask for anything I may have missed.
I request that only people who have been on this diet for a minimum of 3 years or have a nutritional background reply. The reason being is that at 2 and a half years on 811 I thought my teeth were the best they had ever been and in general I felt amazing. Things only started going downhill a couple of months after that with the crumbling of my first tooth.
Thanks for all the replies and sorry it's taken me awhile to answer questions, I've been entertaining a friend from interstate (also 811 with teeth issues who lives with another 811 with teeth issues) so haven't had much time on the computer in the last few days.
There's been some interesting suggestions especially getting a bone scan and possible liver issues. I'm getting a bone scan on the 4th of July so will let you all know the results of that and will look further into possible liver issues although my liver function tests are fine.
Dental hygiene is a hard one as I have an ex girlfriend friend and have heard before that too much brushing/flossing can lead to receding gums. I currently rinse and brush after every meal but will look into some of the less invasive flosses.
As for my non-vegan consumption, it's limited to invertebrates and some eggs and makes up about 1% of my diet. As far as I can see this is the example nature gives us via our cousin primates and that is where I currently choose to put my faith. Not really interested in debating this.
I agree that fasting could have been the cause of this but I also think that after a year and a half if this diet is the healthiest my body should have been replenishing anything that was depleted. Judging by how I've been feeling I've obviously been lacking something. Since the additions to my diet I've been feeling incredible! Things improved with the B12 shots but still felt pretty average. Feel like I'm thriving for the first time in my life!
So I'm still 99% 811 raw vegan so I hope people can still accept me here. I've been doing this for 3 weeks and will be getting another blood test at the 3 month mark and then another blood test, dental x-ray, and bone density scan at 6 months. So consider this an experiment and hey if it doesn't work I can be the poster boy for what not to do! I can't afford any dental work anyway.
p.s In regards to my weight, I've been around 56kgs for my whole adult life. Within the first few months of 811 I lost 8 kgs and have only put it back on since fasting. So if I was anorexic and fasting is bad then I'm very confused.
Replies are closed for this discussion.
don bennett (20 years) talks about fasting in his books, but fasting when the body asks for it, like when sick. from what i have read, i don't think he likes the idea of "scheduled" fasts. i could be wrong.
Yes I did feel amazing at the time despite being 48kgs and everything in that post is true. Still confused how I could feel so good whilst being such an unhealthy weight...?
If fasting is the culprit here then I think it's important for people to know. The problem is we don't know for sure as there are so many variables in my case. Are there any reputable scientific studies against fasting that anyone knows about?
Hey Harley, I still stand by everything I wrote then as till before the fast I did feel amazing. But as you and Freelee keep saying - I was anorexic at 48 kgs. I was 56kgs before 811 and felt like crap. After the fast I quickly put on weight and by the time I came to Woodstock I was 56kgs and felt again how I did before 811. So if I had not have fasted would I still be 48kgs? There was no sign of me putting on weight before the fast. I fasted because I heard that people put on weight after a fast and that's exactly what happened. So was I healthier at 48kgs than after the fast at 56? I'm confused as you both are saying that 48kgs is unhealthy for my height but I felt absolutely amazing at that weight. In the last few weeks I'm back to that amazing feeling and I'm 56 kgs. Of course it could be a coincidence but talk about timing.
Stephen, I hope you will let us all know how it goes. Even if you just send me a personal message... keep us updated.
Almost 14000 hits. This thread is gett'n some attention! NICE!
Yes it's good to get this discussion out there so we can get to the bottom of this. I hope you know that I still believe in 811 and I agree that fasting is questionable but I also question whether 811 needs a small tweak.
I agree with the theory regarding "healing" to "depleting". If one has no fat "stores", then what? Does the body look to bone, muscle and organs to fuel the body? And to what purpose would a fast serve one at that point?
"The benefits of fasting must be preceded by a look at the body's progression when deprived of food. Due to the lack of incoming energy, the body must turn to its own resources, a function called autolysis. (2) Autolysis is the breaking down of fat stores in the body in order to produce energy. The liver is in charge of converting the fats into a chemical called a ketone body, "the metabolic substances acetoacetic acid and beta-hydroxybutyric acid" (3), and then distributing these bodies throughout the body via the blood stream. "When this fat utilization occurs, free fatty acids are released into the blood stream and are used by the liver for energy." (3) The less one eats, the more the body turns to these stored fats and creates these ketone bodies, the accumulation of which is referred to as ketosis. (4)"
Stephen, regardless of how well you may have felt at 48kg, the fact is that you surely had no fat from which a fast could benefit you. I spoke with my nutritionist at one time about fasting, and he told me that he would not recommend fasting to anyone who is underweight/undernourished. He said that we must build our nutritional reserves first, then fast, otherwise we only do more damage than good.
Just to correct you Rhonda on your comment: "Autolysis is the breaking down of fat stores in the body in order to produce energy"........is actually the term used for ketosis. Autolysis is the physiological process that selectively uses the least needed substances/tissues within the body as fuel first and foremost, whilst simultaneously preserving the most essential tissues during a fast. If this wasn't the case then the body would feed haphazardly and indiscriminately and feed on our essential tissues resulting in starvation and death within days of the commencement of a fast.
Got my bone density scan done the other day. My T-Score is -1.5 and my Z-Score is -1.4 with my bone density being 77% of what it should be for a 38 year old. Basically I have the bone density of an average 60 year old. :(
Well according to the bone density Australia people I haven't been having enough calcium in my diet. I averaged around 3500 calories and had 2 heads of lettuce a day at the most which doesn't make the minimum 1000mg of calcium they recommend. I struggled with greens so 2 heads was on a good day.
i guess i average more greens than that... for roughly the same amount of calories... I must say that I use dressings which are not 811 compliant (salt for example) to make them tasty...small compromise...
I also eat peas and peanuts in addition to the greens, but not entirely sure how that will affect calcium.
But I thought you said that you felt improvement after adding eggs? it then sounds less of a lack of calcium, but more of an utilization issue.
anyway, all the best with your healing...